Brexton 00:00:00

Hey, guys. Welcome to the Rise by living in this podcast. My name is Brexton, but. I want you to know the purpose of the interview you're about to hear. And every interview on this show is twofold. First is to show you that you have the ability to create a life of meaning and purpose. Second, and even more important is to show you that nothing will give you more meaning and purpose than building a life that lifts others.

Brexton 00:00:20

If you don't believe me. No, it's okay. Where you hear the story of our latest guest. And then decide what you think. At the end of the day, there's nothing that teaches more powerfully than a genuinely told story. And the story you're about to hear is someone who is finding a way to rise by lifting others. I'm really glad you're here.

Brexton 00:00:33 

You can't connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future and mind. That will make all the people.

Brexton 00:00:43

All of your love.

Brexton 00:00:44 

To be on the street.

Brexton 00:00:46 

With streets so well and all the hope that having it it will have the power and faith here of the great street sweeper who swept in Joplin. And that is nothing greater than to do something further. This is the way I've decided to go the rest of my day. That's what I'm concerned about.

00;01;04;01 - 00;01;22;19

Brexton

Our guest today is University of Georgia, Professor Nick, fisherman, more commonly known as Ranger Nick. Now we talk a lot on the podcast about the undergraduate experience and things we do differently. I'm not kidding. If I could go back and redo my undergrad. One of the things I do is a semester at University of Georgia, just so I could take Nick's class on public speaking.

00;01;22;25 - 00;01;42;03

Brexton

Ranger Nick has developed a strategy where he helps students master the art of public speaking, using injured and non releasable wildlife. Now in the interview, we'll go into further detail on his method, as well as a whole bunch of other things, including Nick story of how he became involved in the world of education and wildlife preservation. It's a really fascinating story that starts way back when Nick was seven.

00;01;42;07 - 00;02;01;05

Brexton

I first heard his story in his well-known TED talk. The one thing all great teachers do, which I highly recommend, will include a link to it in the show notes. Now, when I tell you, I go back and take his class if I could, I really mean it. And the reason is, it is really hard to find somebody that is as authentic and genuine as Nick Sherman.

00;02;01;09 - 00;02;22;25

Brexton

He has a way of making you feel like he really, genuinely cares about where you're at and has no qualms letting you in on his world. It's such a breath of fresh air and it was certainly evident in the interview. And I think the takeaways from this one are as much from the words and stories he shares as the way he is in a personal interaction.

00;02;22;29 - 00;02;34;17

Brexton

So with that introduction, we'll turn it over to Ranger Nick. Let's go ahead and welcome to the show, Nick Firmin or in other words, Ranger Nick. Nick, thanks so much for being here today, man. It's such a delight to have you.

00;02;34;18 - 00;02;36;28

Nick

It's my pleasure. Thanks so much for inviting me.

00;02;37;27 - 00;03;00;20

Brexton

You bet. So, Nick. Nick, I got to tell you that the one thing that stood out to me most as I was watching your TED talk, which is how I first found out about you, was there's a lot of great messages in your TED talk, especially for those listening. They definitely should go check it out. There's lots of awesome takeaways, but more than anything, the thing that I loved about it was the way you just stood up there and probably a little different from what most people are used to seeing on the TED stage.

00;03;00;20 - 00;03;17;27

Brexton

You know, you've got your your vest on and your cowboy boots and your wranglers and you kind of have a look that maybe people are like, who is this? My wife likes to. She always jokes about calling me a country bumpkin. I'm from Wyoming, so she'll call me a country bumpkin all the time. And I could just almost hear people in the audience thinking like, who is this country bumpkin?

00;03;17;27 - 00;03;37;02

Brexton

And you just stood up there and and owned it and you were so authentic and so genuine. And more than anything that you said your your presence on stage, your your genuine enthusiasm for what it is you had to share is just contagious. So it's it's so exciting to have you here and to pick your brain a little bit about some of the stuff you've you've been up to.

00;03;37;06 - 00;03;53;26

Nick

Well, I really it means a lot to me to hear you say that. And I share a lot with folks when they ask me about that. Even the secret to life, the secret to success or whatever you want to call it. I really didn't believe that Enthusiast AM is such a secret and I have these sudden bursts of it, you know, from time to time.

00;03;53;27 - 00;04;11;13

Nick

And I can't help that. But when I'm talking about teaching, when I get a chance to stand in from an audience like that, that's a great compliment, is that I'm genuine? Because what you saw there is exactly the way I am in my classroom. That's how I am all the time, you know. So I thought, I've got to be made, you know?

00;04;12;04 - 00;04;12;15

Nick

Yeah.

00;04;12;28 - 00;04;29;05

Brexton

Well, we're going to cross our fingers. We really get we get a few of those bursts of ASM here in the next couple of minutes. I'm excited. So can we start? I think a lot of our listeners are kind of in this phase of trying to figure out what they want to do with their life, basically what direction they want to point it for you.

00;04;29;05 - 00;04;43;26

Brexton

It seems like that question started to get answered pretty early on. In fact, you talk about an experience you had with Ranger Bell. Bill Sorry, Ranger Bell. Could you tell us a little bit about your Ranger experience and how that kind of affected the trajectory for the rest of your life?

00;04;43;28 - 00;05;07;07

Nick

And I'll tell you what, it is a story that I tell at the start of every one of my courses, every semester that I teach at Tell the Story, because it helps to remind me sometimes that even a half hour, 45 minutes you spend with someone can really change the direction of their whole life. So for me, I was seven years old in elementary school and missed Franco's class.

00;05;07;07 - 00;05;40;21

Nick

Here I was and we were having this guest speaker and ranger Bill worked for the Maryland Department of Natural Resources, where I'm originally from in Maryland, and he was visiting this day with some animals that he used as ambassadors of environmental messages. And I'm telling you, the way this guy came in there and I use this phrase, I think and I'll say it again, the way he agitate and I really love that word, you know, he wasn't just sharing facts and things about these different animals, this hawk and owl and turtle and the snake and things that he brought.

00;05;40;29 - 00;05;59;11

Nick

He wasn't just sharing the natural history. He would share the things about what can we do to help and why are these animals relevant to you? As a seven year old living in this part of Maryland, why should you care? And the way he did that, in a way, he engaged us and he really showed that he cared about us and he was there for less than an hour.

00;05;59;22 - 00;06;23;25

Nick

And then he left. I thought, gosh, I need to be like that guy. I saw the way people responded to him and I wanted to have that feeling to be him one day. Before that, I had thought and my great grandmother used to say that I should have become a preacher. And there are a lot of people over the years that have said, you know, Nick, have you ever thought about preaching because you just love to be in front of others and share a message?

00;06;24;04 - 00;06;42;16

Nick

And I have thought about that. But as a college professor and as a teacher, I get to do that all the time. But that's the difference that Ranger Bell made in less than an hour. And I kept in touch with him. I volunteered to help him for years, and I was finally hired. But I was 16 to work alongside him.

00;06;42;16 - 00;06;50;11

Nick

But yes. So my whole life, that kind of work, it didn't feel like a job. It was a blast going out and teaching, doing the things he was doing.

00;06;50;20 - 00;06;59;08

Brexton

Tell us a little bit more about the work he started doing at 16. You get officially hired with Ranger Bill. What was some of the stuff that you were doing and what was it that you love most about?

00;06;59;14 - 00;07;21;25

Nick

Before I was 16, before I could drive, I would have to be taken to basically the facility where these animals that he used, a lot of birds of prey and reptiles. We had owls and hawks and vultures and eagles and all kind of things that had permanent injuries is the reason they were in captivity. So I had to go there and I would clean a lot of cages out and be around him.

00;07;21;25 - 00;07;49;02

Nick

I would do a lot of work like animal husbandry stuff. And then when I turned 16 and I could start driving, you know, Ranger Bill said, well, listen, you can take yourself to this camp or this school and bring some animals and deliver a presentation with the animals. So what was so neat about that was over the years I had watched him deliver these presentations many, many, many times and got to see the flavor that he put on and the personality he put it doing.

00;07;49;10 - 00;08;13;22

Nick

And I said, Well, I'm going to develop my teaching in my own way. So I developed my presentation to fit my style and it was that creativity, that art side of teaching, that I just thought, man, you know, within reason I can do anything I want up here. I can stand up in front of this audience and share these animals and my passion, encourage them to act a certain way, the audience, to help these animals.

00;08;14;01 - 00;08;34;02

Nick

And that's just so neat. And it was so humbling to have people react the way they did to me. You know, to say just what you said. I'm so appreciative of that, that folks, that man, you just love to do what you do. And I love to listen to you. You know, I love to watch you. And that that just means everything because it's I never consider myself to have any talent.

00;08;34;02 - 00;08;46;18

Nick

I just say I'm really I guess I'm really good at talking and I just love to talk. It was really neat to be able to have a job doing that where I could be myself and do that and inspire others. And it's it's a blast.

00;08;47;08 - 00;09;07;04

Brexton

Yeah, that's really cool. It seems like correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that even from the beginning, I think you were you enjoyed the animals, your passion about the animals. But what really lit a fire in you was the teaching, right? The, the seeing people come alive and being able to, to be in front of a group of people and entertain them, if you will.

00;09;07;12 - 00;09;24;12

Nick

That is and the thing that I always wondered about over the years and I did that for seven years teaching in Maryland and around the surrounding states, about five states in the mid-Atlantic, US there. And I would teach, but I would be there for about an hour and there might be a couple of hundred people in the auditorium.

00;09;24;12 - 00;09;42;20

Nick

And I would bring these animals and I'd tell these stories and these corny jokes and I'd share these messages, and then I would leave. And I never saw that audience again. I never knew the difference that I made. I never knew the difference that the animals made as an ambassador of a message like I had. I can't tell you how many birds I had.

00;09;42;20 - 00;10;01;15

Nick

I had a red tailed hawk that was missing its entire right wing. It had been hit by a car. Its wing had to be amputated. So you take this hawk count and I'm holding this in my glove and it's sitting there and it's so obvious. People look at this. Oh, my gosh. That's so the emotional side comes out.

00;10;01;15 - 00;10;21;12

Nick

Oh, gosh, what can I do to help that bird? It's missing a wing. And they would see this and this bird would put its left wing out and it would look like it had its arm around me. It would try to balance itself. I put a little wing huddle around my shoulder and it would people would just melt and they would look at that, oh, my gosh, you know, what can I do to help?

00;10;21;24 - 00;10;46;10

Nick

I knew that that animal was effective in some way at pulling out emotions, hopefully getting someone to not throw food scraps out their window when they're driving down the road. Because I would tell them, look, if you throw that banana peel out your window when you're driving down the interstate, yes, it's biodegradable, but it sits on the side of the road and mice and rats come to eat that.

00;10;46;10 - 00;11;07;05

Nick

And that hawk is looking for mice and rats. So he's not dumb. He's going to sit there along the road and fly down to grab that stuff. So hopefully someone would look at that hawk and say, okay, I see what happens when we throw food scraps out our window or drive it. I will never do that again because I see the results, but I never knew that was true.

00;11;07;05 - 00;11;22;20

Nick

I assumed that Hawk was beneficial, but I didn't know. And that led me into my research that I work on today as a professor, and that is the use of animals in teaching. What difference do animals make in an educational environment? And they make a big difference.

00;11;23;07 - 00;11;43;22

Brexton

So tell us, fill in the gap a little bit then. So you're you're 16 and you're working for Ranger Bill. All right. Tell us, when you began your college career. I can't imagine starting my college career saying I want to research the effect of animals on teaching. Was it that clear for you beginning that that was where you could end up as as a professor researching that specific topic?

00;11;43;22 - 00;11;48;08

Brexton

Or did it did you have to do some trial and error to find where you are going?

00;11;48;08 - 00;12;07;08

Nick

That's a great question. And I'll tell you what, I said it for me when I was working on an undergraduate degree in forestry at Virginia Tech. I was first generation college student. So I went there thinking that if I made it through this, I would go back to Maryland and I would keep doing the Ranger stuff. I would just keep doing that.

00;12;07;27 - 00;12;27;27

Nick

And I graduated with that degree, went back to Maryland for a little bit. I got this opportunity to pursue a master's degree there at Virginia Tech, working under a professor that I had. Nobody in my family had gone to college. I didn't know what it was like to get a master's degree. I had this this impostor syndrome. You know, people talk about that.

00;12;28;21 - 00;12;49;21

Nick

I still deal with it. Sure. My gosh, am I smart enough to do that? Well, it was through that experience as a graduate student at Virginia Tech that I was a teaching assistant. So as a graduate student, I got to help teach some of these lab PhDs in the department, and I got to help teach dendrochronology, which is tree identification.

00;12;50;07 - 00;13;13;01

Nick

So I got to go out every week with students and teach them different trees. And each week I saw the same students and I got to see them growing and changing over time. And I never saw that when I was in Maryland because I would go visit an audience right now I'd be gone. I never knew the difference I could make, but as a real more of a formal teacher, I got to see them change.

00;13;13;01 - 00;13;29;09

Nick

And it was through that experience. I thought, okay, maybe more of a formal classroom teacher is what I need to do. And that's what then led me into this whole idea. Well, I could work on a Ph.D. and do a university kind of teaching gig, and that's that's how that happened, right? Yeah.

00;13;29;16 - 00;13;47;12

Brexton

Well, Nick, that that brings to mind a lot of different takeaways. One of them is what the real at the end of the day, the real role of of teaching is, is if our only job or our only goal is to stand up and entertain somebody for an hour or however long it is, then we might do that successfully.

00;13;47;12 - 00;14;01;29

Brexton

But it sounds like for you, teaching was more about effecting a change or leading to a certain outcome within people, or having them see something differently and act differently as a result. That yeah, that's cool. I, I like that.

00;14;02;13 - 00;14;29;01

Nick

It is approach to teaching. I mean, I tell you, Brexit in the college classroom every year that goes by and I don't want to sound like an old guy but so teach in college for almost 15 years every year that goes by and so much has happened with COVID. We've been using technology to communicate, but every year that goes by, we get high school graduates who come to the University of Georgia that are brilliant.

00;14;29;01 - 00;15;07;22

Nick

I mean, I tell the freshmen, they come in here, I could not get into this place if I was a freshman with what grades and test scores I had back then, I couldn't get in here. So the students here are brilliant. And all these universities, my gosh, the content knowledge that they have is incredible. What we're seeing now is there is less and less emphasis in high school middle school, on these life skills like communication skills, teamwork skills, problem solving, critical thinking, you know, being able to work together, being able to have a conversation, being able to present a message in front of an audience that's coherent and conversational.

00;15;08;02 - 00;15;30;14

Nick

You know, there's there's not training on that. So, so much of what I do in all of my classes, no matter what class it is I'm teaching, I'm pushing those soft skills, you know, those skills that are going to help them succeed in any career which are communication skills, critical thinking, teamwork, that kind of stuff. You know, it's so important and yet it's so often forgotten.

00;15;30;14 - 00;15;30;22

Nick

Hmm.

00;15;30;26 - 00;15;49;00

Brexton

Would you say in your perspective, in your experience, the trend has really been that it's decreasing the amount of emphasis on that, because I notice that it seems to be people are more aware of the need for it. And I wonder if, like you're saying, frankly, the emphasis on it or the training that gets given on it is in fact going down.

00;15;49;00 - 00;15;53;22

Brexton

You'd say in your experience, people are showing up to university less and less experienced. And yes, I.

00;15;53;22 - 00;16;13;01

Nick

Think what's happening is that's crazy talking about it or saying, Oh yeah, there's studies on there. There is a study that I referenced sometimes in my classes, it's what's taught versus what saw it. So here are some things that are really being pushed at these classes. All this content knowledge. Great. Okay, you got to know what you're talking about.

00;16;13;01 - 00;16;41;05

Nick

If you get a degree in physics, you got to know physics. Okay? But the employers that are hiring graduates are saying, look, yeah, you got to know content, but you also need to be able to write a cover letter or a memo or facilitate a meeting or work in a team or deliver a presentation to a client. And it's like we're talking about, yes, that's important, but it's it's almost like we're just passing the buck.

00;16;41;05 - 00;17;19;05

Nick

Well, they'll get those skills and another class now they'll get those in another class. And by the time they get to classes with me, you know, here I come along and assume, oh sure, they, I've got some idea of what you can say when you stand up there and give a presentation. How to start, how to wrap it up, things to do that I'm saying there's more and more of a need for training in, you know and often it starts the big hurdle is public speaking anxiety you know is is when you're asked to give a presentation from an audience and the most scary audience is an audience of your peers that you have to

00;17;19;05 - 00;17;37;02

Nick

see over and over. You know, you got to face this crowd next week. Again, it's not one and done. We have to be able to deal with that anxiety. And that's where for me, animals come in. Yeah, that animals are really helping students with anxiety. They really are in terms of teaching and presenting information.

00;17;37;05 - 00;18;02;07

Brexton

That's cool. So I want to jump into that. And right before we get there, there's one thing that I one of the thought that I have that I think is worth emphasizing. It strikes me as I hear your story that as you're making these important decisions about what to study, what to graduate in, what to what to do long term, it seems clear that for you the priority was to continue having these impactful conversations, to continue pursuing something that filled you up, like teaching.

00;18;02;07 - 00;18;35;21

Brexton

And I wonder how different things might have turned out if you had been more worried about a financially lucrative career. I can't imagine going out touring around with Range. Your bill was the most financially lucrative or the most inspiring or respected thing to say around the dinner table. I don't know it, but it was clearly something so important to you and it seems like sometimes, ah, as a college student is easy to get your perspective or your priorities mixed up to where you pursue things that are more financially lucrative rather than things that like for you, that that really fill you up or bring you a lot of meaning.

00;18;36;01 - 00;19;11;17

Nick

Right? And I tell you the, if I was to continue doing the Ranger Nick stuff in Maryland and let's say I had been doing that since 2002 when I graduated from Virginia Tech. You know, those 20 years ago, if I was doing that for the past 20 years in Maryland, I, I know I wouldn't have the opportunities that I've had as a college professor here and to have an opportunity to deliver that TEDx talk that you so graciously watched and that led us to meet up together today, I wouldn't have had that opportunity.

00;19;11;17 - 00;19;31;21

Nick

I wouldn't have had an opportunity to travel around the world and do things in teaching that I've gotten a chance to do. And what's so neat and what's so special about when you follow your passion is that if folks recognize that passion, you're going to be successful because folks are going to want to be around you. They're going to want to lift you up.

00;19;31;21 - 00;19;59;16

Nick

And, you know, I've been very, very fortunate that I think about sometimes I think about what I used to do when I was 12 years old handling these different kinds of animals and doing a birthday party presentation at somebody's house with a snake and a turtle and a whole screech owl or something. And I think about what I'm doing today and the opportunities I've had as a college professor, and I'm doing the same stuff, but I'm doing a lot of other things too.

00;19;59;20 - 00;20;19;01

Nick

I still can revisit those moments in my classes when I visit a camp or a school. I can still do that today, just the same as I did all those years ago. So I am continuing to do that same kind of stuff, just on a different level, you know? And that's what's really special to me. I do. I think about that.

00;20;19;01 - 00;20;43;23

Nick

I thought about just the other day I was standing at a camp and had a bunch of students that were about to come over to this pavilion to visit with me. I brought some animals to show them and I was just standing there thinking about I thought, you know, it's pretty wild that for I mean, gosh, probably 30 years I've been teaching with animals in front of audiences since I was a kid, let's say since I was 12 or 30 years ago.

00;20;43;23 - 00;20;57;10

Nick

I've been teaching that year and and I'm still doing it today and I still enjoy it and I still love it and I'm still able to do that. And that's a cool thing. And it never, ever gets old. It really doesn't. I never get tired of it.

00;20;58;15 - 00;21;18;15

Brexton

That's cool. Yeah, that's cool. Nick, thanks for sure. Tell us a little bit about some of the principles you teach in your class. When you take a student who has a ton of anxiety around standing in front of a group of their peers to teach, how do you introduce animals and teaching and give them the confidence to deliver a message in front of people?

00;21;18;15 - 00;21;39;11

Nick

Well, I think the first thing that we've got to do is we've got to get the attention off of ourselves. And I know that sounds really crazy because probably the reason there are no but nervous and this is a good thing is because they care. They don't want to look like a pull up there, you know, but they know that everybody is looking at them.

00;21;39;11 - 00;21;56;09

Nick

When you're in the front of the room, everybody's looking at you. And so let's get the attention off of us for a second and let's put it on something else. So that's a starting point. And to do that. So I brought my little buddy over here, listen to. Yeah, introduce a senior. Now, look, I tell you what I'm going to do.

00;21;57;08 - 00;22;16;28

Nick

I'm going to put out something here because this I'll talk about it and I know she'll do it. And this will be so funny. But I'm going to talk about a story, some land, something out of my desk so I don't have any accidents on the desk or something. But look at this little sweetie. Oh, darling. Now, look at this.

00;22;17;00 - 00;22;41;19

Nick

I mean, look at this. Look at the little face. Now, this is Sharon. Sharon is an eastern box turtle. Now, I don't call it a box turtle, because when you find them, you put them in a box. Even though some people think that. Right. They call them that big as if she's wave waving a jar, that little arm that there's a little line on their stomach right here, the little belly that's almost like the hinge of a door.

00;22;41;28 - 00;22;59;25

Nick

And when she gets really, really scared, she can shut that little door and tuck her legs in and her head in and fold up like a box. So that's why they call them an Eastern box turtle. And we left tomorrow the western part of the country where you are and Florida box turtles and all over the place. But Eastern box turtle, she's missing.

00;23;00;06 - 00;23;03;28

Brexton

So neck that that bottom part is in a hard shell it folds up in.

00;23;04;08 - 00;23;27;08

Nick

Yeah yep so this right here right there. She's not scared at all. But if she was scared, this little part right here, that little line would fold in. And she would enclose her arms and her head and her legs and and all the somewhat like locks. Yeah, that's pretty wild, I think. Now, take a look at Sharon. She's missing an arm right here.

00;23;28;03 - 00;23;46;25

Nick

So, I mean, this is a really, really awful story about she had a run in with a lawnmower and that's what happened two years ago and was taken to a nature center, had an operation. They removed the rest of her arm there. My gosh, the lawnmower came so close to her head, you know, she's really lucky to be alive.

00;23;47;08 - 00;24;07;16

Nick

Her shell will grow back. It's made out of the same stuff. Our fingernails are made out of keratin, so that'll be okay. But here's the thing with Sharon. So a lot of my students love Sharon, and I've got different turtles and snakes and salamanders and stuff that I bring to class. But I'll tell you a story about Sharon, and she does this sometimes, but don't get any ideas, lady.

00;24;07;16 - 00;24;30;21

Nick

Okay, so here's what happens. So students stand up in the front and she's there holding Sharon. And I teach them how to hold Sharon safely, how to take her out. You just don't want her little nails to scratch it because it can make you startled. And we don't want anybody dropping her. But she being held. And all of a sudden, as my student is talking up there and they have this turtle and they're holding it, all of a sudden Sharon pees.

00;24;31;14 - 00;24;55;13

Nick

That happens. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I don't get the ideas, but she does this all right. The student laughs. The class laughs a little bit. And do you now from that point forward in their teaching, that student is such a better communicator, is such a better connector with the audience. And we videotape my students teaching and they'll go back and they'll watch the video.

00;24;55;13 - 00;25;16;01

Nick

And I say, watch from the point that she piece but big forward and then they say you know what you're right. I did such a better job and I said, I think it's because some unplanned thing happened. You rolled with it. There's nothing you could do about it. And you became more relaxed. She became more relaxed, you know, did it.

00;25;16;05 - 00;25;44;12

Nick

But it is the animal takes the attention off of us and puts the attention of the audience on the animal, and it makes that student a better communicator. And I've seen this countless times with animals, turtles, snakes, chickens, ducks, all different kinds of things that we're handling. And once that student can get through that moment of handling that animal and teaching with it, and they realize that they did not die, they are still alive.

00;25;44;21 - 00;26;02;28

Nick

What happened up there? They can slowly start doing this without an act, but the animals really, really help with that. They really do. And it makes it more fun. There's a certain level of hype that comes right before you take an animal out in front of an audience because they don't know what you have or who you know.

00;26;02;28 - 00;26;21;22

Nick

But there's this surprise element. And as a teacher, that's kind of cool. You know, it's like a magician about to show this trick. It's there's a certain level of excite and those things are what really help our students be better communicators and better connectors with an audience. Yeah, and you never know what's going to happen with an animal.

00;26;21;23 - 00;26;43;16

Nick

You really don't. And it's kind of special, but especially an animal that has a story like Sharon really can have an emotional connection with the audience. Yeah, she's really cute. Our kids love her to sit down in her little box. Look at that face. I mean, she just decision. How many people have seen her over the years? She's about 13 years old.

00;26;43;16 - 00;27;06;11

Nick

I've had it for about two years. And that permanent resident, whether she lives in our house, she can't be released because of that arm. She can't hibernate, so she can't dig in the ground in the wintertime like they do. So she stays with us. But like I said, she's so friendly. She loves to come out. And I'll tell you what, if I would sit her on the ground, you would see she's a great crawler to see in that short video.

00;27;06;13 - 00;27;10;28

Nick

You would remain, you know, let's just get it done. So pretty cool.

00;27;12;01 - 00;27;29;25

Brexton

That's cool. Yeah, that's really cool. What a novel idea. So. So I'm trying to think now. I mean, in your class, do you then do the students eventually reach a point where they have to get up there without an animal? Like they have to get to a point now where they can they can direct or handle that anxiety without the help of an animal do.

00;27;29;25 - 00;27;52;22

Nick

And so they may work in a team and we may have a couple of animals involved as team members are taking things out. So there's a lot of there's a lot of choreography, I guess you would say, involved in that. But there are points when that student is having a conversation with the audience and it's not a card, kind of a memorized line conversation or PowerPoint slide behind them.

00;27;53;05 - 00;28;14;22

Nick

It's a conversation. And it's I try to get students away from the idea of memorizing or scripting a presentation. You know, let's get to the point where we know where we want to go in our mind. Let's have a conversation with the audience. Let's be comfortable. If a teachable moment happens, like sharing peonies or they're teaching outside. Holy cow.

00;28;14;23 - 00;28;39;25

Nick

Look at what we just found over here in the woods. Well, let's go take a look at, you know, so being confident in your ability to engage an audience and move them where you want to move them. That's a pretty powerful thing, you know. So I think that nothing against the public speaking class, but I think a lot of public speaking classes are podium based, PowerPoint based, note cards, very, very scripted.

00;28;40;09 - 00;29;04;14

Nick

And if you're delivering a eulogy, maybe that's appropriate. But most of the students that I work with that are going to go into natural resource management or forestry or agriculture. Their audience is outside. It's not in doors, in a boardroom with a seated audience. So they have to be able to engage in a different audience, in a different environment.

00;29;05;17 - 00;29;23;17

Brexton

But it almost I would maybe add that it seems like, although that might not be most of their end destination, it's seems like it is still certainly applies even to that type of setting when you're presenting maybe a boardroom type setting. Either way, the animal seems to play a role of just helping you overcome that initial anxiety. That's really cool.

00;29;24;00 - 00;29;39;27

Nick

And you know what? Sometimes we each need to find our personality in how we teach. And I tell my students, You don't have to do it the way that I do it. You know, I do it my way. And that's just the way because I love it and I have my energy level. I can't help, but I just do it.

00;29;40;05 - 00;29;59;14

Nick

You don't have to be like me. You do it your way. But if you're genuine in your authentic in how you're connecting with that audience and you're enjoying what you're saying, that's contagious, you know? And I when students figure that out, that's what's going to be remembered in an interview. That's what's going to be remembered as they're working with their colleagues in their job.

00;30;00;10 - 00;30;12;06

Nick

My gosh, that's such a secret to success. Like I said at the top, the idea of abusing his passion. She will not fail. If you are passionate about what you're doing, you will not fail. Hmm.

00;30;12;18 - 00;30;31;12

Brexton

That's cool. So I'm sitting here thinking, like, what do I do if I don't have access to, you know, a whole bunch of animals? But it seems I'm starting to see a principle that applies across the board here, that the animal plays the role, I guess, of redirecting the attention away from me long enough for me to get over that initial anxiety and fear.

00;30;31;12 - 00;30;55;06

Brexton

And then if I can direct the energy, the attention or the focus to not necessarily me, but my my passion, my energy that I have for this topic or this subject, whatever it is, then it's not about me and my performance. It's about this idea that I'm passionate about. That seems to be a universal principle that that that really our goal as a teacher is to stand up and redirect the attention to something more incredibly passionate about whether it's an animal or.

00;30;55;06 - 00;31;17;24

Nick

Whatever it's right. And if you get if you're using an object, some kind of a model, maybe it's a plant or a toy dinosaur. You're going to talk about some elements of anatomy. Let's let's use this model. Let's tell a story instead of presenting factual information. One, two, three, four, five. Let's tell the story and let the information emerge.

00;31;18;04 - 00;31;44;19

Nick

And that's what we do in teaching. We relate new information to existing experiences and we tie it in that people's lives. And I'd say as a teacher over the years, I'm probably teach a third less content in the classes that I teach now. Same class I taught ten years ago. I probably teach a third less content, but the content that I do teach, I'm going more in depth.

00;31;45;04 - 00;32;08;28

Nick

We're doing a deeper dove with that stuff. There's more case studies with it. I'm not so much trying to cover a bunch of stuff, but what I am teaching, I'm doing a better job with a more focused on relationships. I'm more focused on connection with students. I'm less concerned about hurrying through something. I'm less concerned about giving out tests and quizzes in my classes.

00;32;08;28 - 00;32;44;03

Nick

And I'm more concerned about projects and getting them to work together on a scenario and come up with a response, getting them to teach others what they've learned versus memorize it and put it on a test. I guess I don't think things like that are what matters. I still would love to do a study, take a bunch of students, let's say, at the University of Georgia, take a bunch of students walking out of any class, final exam time, any class, 30 seconds after they turn the final exam and ask them some of the stuff that they just responded to on that exam, see if they can give it the answer.

00;32;44;17 - 00;33;05;21

Nick

I would imagine that some of you can't because it's gone in is on that piece of paper. It was a brain dump and they will never need to know what they think again. And so why? Why are we just memorizing stuff to regurgitate it, put it on some why don't we teach less content? But the content we do teach, do deeper dives and let's teach it to somebody else.

00;33;06;03 - 00;33;21;27

Nick

Take what you learned there. Teach it to a fourth grade class that comes to visit. Now you really understand what's going on and you're not memorizing it. I really would love to do that. I am not a fan of tests. I don't give tests at all. I just don't think that's where learning is best measured.

00;33;21;28 - 00;33;28;14

Brexton

So how do you how do you evaluate at the end of your class? How do you go about giving a final grade?

00;33;28;16 - 00;33;54;04

Nick

So we have a series of assignments that build on each other. So there may be some reflection assignments where it's more of a student rethinking what went on through a journaling activity. There may be an opportunity where I ask them to develop a lesson plan around the content area. And I'm looking not only at accuracy of the content that they're putting in that lesson, not memorizing it, but putting in there, but also the way in which they're going to communicate that.

00;33;54;14 - 00;34;16;23

Nick

How are they going to hook the audience at the start to grab their attention? What actions are they going to inspire among that audience, given that content? How are they going to evaluate learning when they deliver it? So I'm I look at more at these broader skill based abilities of students, not necessarily just plain knowledge. I want to see that they know how to do something.

00;34;17;01 - 00;34;37;22

Nick

And we'll often videotape what they're doing with iPads and watch it and reflect on their ability to do certain things well or not. So well. And then we have a frank conversation with some rubrics that we have where we're looking at their skill sets and listen, we still need to work on this area because this still is not as sharp as it could be.

00;34;38;01 - 00;35;03;18

Nick

So they go back and improve and polish. And to me, that's a really powerful thing. And I'll tell you another thing that I think is really important. I really enjoy grading, and I think that the grading aspect tells me how I'm doing as much as it does. Tell me how they're doing. But I think that in all my classes, what you'll find is that students always have the opportunity to resubmit an assignment and have me look at it again.

00;35;03;18 - 00;35;22;27

Nick

If they didn't earn the grade that they thought they could have because they had a bad day or whatever, and I'll go back and relook at that and give them feedback and see if they've taken the feedback and run with that. That's my job, is to stretch them. Always love the phrase. As a teacher, I think we should be compassionately demanding.

00;35;23;15 - 00;35;46;27

Nick

I really like that word phrased, compassionately demanding. You know, it's we want to push students. We want to challenge them. I think the thing that happens, a lot of new teachers, they think, well, if my class is really easy, a lot of students will want to take it because it'll just be an easy grade. And I think that what they find in the long run is students want to be challenged, they don't want it to be a joke.

00;35;46;29 - 00;36;05;04

Nick

They want to go in and have to think a little bit and be encouraged and be given feedback. And so I think I know I'm biased, but I think you'll find that students that come out of experiences that we have together are really prepared because they know how to teach this stuff to somebody else without all the jargon.

00;36;05;09 - 00;36;10;17

Nick

Just tell me what you know how to do in everyday language, and that's important. Yeah.

00;36;11;14 - 00;36;29;24

Brexton

That's cool. That really resonates with me, what you said there at the end too. I found that to be true in my own experience teaching as well, that students will often meet whatever expectation you kind of place upon them. If you expect students to be lazy, don't want to do any work and aren't interested in learning and they'll come into your class, they'll recognize that that's your expectation.

00;36;30;03 - 00;36;45;02

Brexton

And even if it's not necessarily true that they'll meet that expectation and kind of confirm that bias for you. But if you go ahead and if you can raise the bar and say no, like I expect you, I love that it's compassionately demanding. Yeah, you said. Yeah, if you can be compassionately demanding and say no, like we're in here to learn.

00;36;45;04 - 00;36;55;02

Brexton

I mean, students eat that up. They want they want somebody that that is has that expectation of them because they want to meet it. That's absolutely what's the one that's cool.

00;36;55;02 - 00;37;22;04

Nick

And if you're going to ask them a lot as a teacher, you have got to be able to do it yourself. So if I'm going to ask must and I do this, if I'm going to ask my students to write lyrics to a song about some concept of synthesis or whatever, I've got to write to a song and I've got to perform it for them to set the bar so that they well, okay, when this guy did it, he dressed up like whatever he performed the song.

00;37;22;04 - 00;37;46;18

Nick

Now we've got to do it, you know, and that really inspires them. And, you know, that's another just awesome, awesome part of what I do. I'll give you another example. So my students that go on graduate and that work in four different camps for age camps, boys and Girls clubs, Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, church camps. And in every camp there's a campfire experience.

00;37;46;19 - 00;38;09;18

Nick

You know, the kids come around the campfire, they say they tell stories as well. What we've learned is so many of the students that are graduating from undergraduate programs in forestry or natural resources that go on to do those kind of jobs have never facilitated a campfire. They've never been to a campfire. I mean, and they're going to be asked to do this in their job.

00;38;10;10 - 00;38;35;15

Nick

So one class period during one of my classes, I have this fake LED campfire that has like all these lights and like these bands that blow these little pieces of silk and it looks like a legitimate fire. We set this thing up in the center of the room and everybody gets around it. The whole room. We all develop a big circle and I teach them songs to sing around it and I do these goofy dances around it.

00;38;35;15 - 00;38;50;28

Nick

We do these different songs at these dances you do with kids, and they see me up there doing that and that inspires them this, okay, when I get out there, I need to do this because Ranger network performance and this is what we do and he did it in front of us. So I'm going to do it, you know.

00;38;51;01 - 00;39;06;11

Nick

So I think about that sometimes and just think, I mean, those days I walk out of class, it's like, this is this is what I get paid to do. I brought this campfire and we just had a blast. That's pretty wild.

00;39;06;25 - 00;39;28;00

Brexton

That's awesome. That's so cool. So I'm not teaching right now. During the summer, I spend the summer brainstorming ideas of how to, you know, what do I want and the outcome of next semester to be. And one thing I've been really working on is how can I bring the class the other and create more class unity? Nick I think I'm going to go order myself a term because that sounds like that's such a cool activity.

00;39;28;07 - 00;39;31;26

Brexton

Do you usually wait? Do you do that like at the very beginning, or will you wait till the classes come together?

00;39;31;26 - 00;39;58;24

Nick

No, what I do is I always do that campfire and I teach a class called Teaching with Animals, and I do that campfire in that course because so many of those students will go on and work in camps and nature centers and zoos, aquariums, museums, where they're doing that kind of stuff. And I always do the campfire during the week before our fall break because I do the campfire thing that way because that's kind of a special class and we have s'mores and stuff.

00;39;58;24 - 00;40;19;00

Nick

I bring in these s'mores and it's not a real fire, so we have to like make them ahead of time. And then I bring it when I break here at the University of Georgia, they UGA plays the University of Florida that weekend in Jacksonville. So I always bring in baby alligators so everybody gets to handle these baby gators safely.

00;40;19;00 - 00;40;36;10

Nick

Show them how to do that. And it's always neat because everybody likes to put stuff on Instagram and Facebook that the dogs really handle the gators. You know, in my class, as we get a lot of attention and I always do that, that one semester midpoint of the semester, you know, and that kind of stuff is just fun.

00;40;36;14 - 00;40;57;11

Nick

I mean, it's just but you're right, it it builds a sense of community. You know, if you if we move them out of their desks and put them around in a circle like that, and you're together at eye level, that's memorable. You know, anything that's different is going to be more memorable. And sometimes just get out of your seats and sit together on the floor.

00;40;57;11 - 00;41;01;06

Nick

Simple as that sounds. That's memorable. That's different. Yeah.

00;41;01;17 - 00;41;20;04

Brexton

That's cool. That's really cool. Next, man, lives have been so much fun. Here's here's the last question that I like to end with. It seems really clear to me and seems that you feel the same way that teaching can be a form of service. It's it's a way to give of yourself for somebody else. And there's a quote by a religious leader named Gordon Hinckley.

00;41;20;05 - 00;41;37;16

Brexton

He says, The greatest irony in life is that he or she who serves almost always benefits more than he or she who has served. And I think there's there's been a lot of tidbits and a lot of thoughts that you share today that kind of reinforce this idea. But I'd love to hear you just synthesize for us to end how you've seen this irony prove true in your own life.

00;41;37;19 - 00;42;10;23

Nick

Well, you know, there are a lot of disciplines. There aren't a lot of jobs where you get to see the difference that you can make on folks. Sometimes just after one course together, sometimes years later. You know, I'm very, very humbled to hear from students of mine from years ago that will send me a text or an email or write me a card about something and say, hey, I did something today or last week and I thought of you because you always said that if this happened to us, here's what you do, and they think of you and they'll send you a note.

00;42;10;23 - 00;42;26;26

Nick

And that's just I always tell my students, I say, as a teacher, a lot of times I don't know how my work will turn out because you all go off and do your own thing. And sometimes I never know. So I always encourage him. Keep in touch with us. Let us know how you're doing. My door is always open.

00;42;26;26 - 00;42;50;17

Nick

It's I'm always here to help you. And it's wild to get to see the difference that you made. And I think the thing is, just like I shared in that TEDx talk, I'm very, very humbled that students realize how genuinely I care about their success and that there's nothing that we can't work out together. I'm not in this to show them how much I know I'm not in this to figure out what they don't know.

00;42;51;07 - 00;43;16;27

Nick

I'm in this to challenge them and prepare them to be successful. Sometimes that just means finding yourself and what you enjoy doing, and I always encourage them. Tell somebody what you love to do. If you enjoy doing something, tell somebody you enjoy doing that. That's what I always did being around these animals. And I told them, I love teaching with these things and it's taken me all the way down this path to continue doing it today.

00;43;17;11 - 00;43;36;15

Nick

You know, it's just it it really is that idea of giving back to those students and putting them first. And I always will say, in this job as a college professor, I do research, I get grants, I do outreach stuff, all that. But if they took teaching out of my job, I would quit tomorrow. It is the best part of this job.

00;43;36;15 - 00;43;55;14

Nick

And, you know, I would not miss research, I would not miss grants. But if I didn't get systems, I'd miss it. And the best part and it's it keeps you young, you know, I mean, it's it's a really, really, really neat job. It's not easy. I'll tell you. That's a lot of work and grading can take a lot of time would be a lot of work.

00;43;55;14 - 00;43;59;19

Nick

But I tell you what, it's really, really neat to know you're making a difference.

00;44;00;13 - 00;44;15;15

Brexton

Yeah, man, what a great way to conclude. That's cool. Nick. Thanks you. It's so fun. I'm actually really curious the story of getting on the TEDx stage, how did how did that come about and how what was that experience like?

00;44;15;16 - 00;44;36;08

Nick

Yeah, I mean, so I had some students that had nominated me to do that and I had watched it now literally like two or three TEDTalks before. I mean, I knew a little bit about TED Talks, but I saw these students are like, Hey, Dr. Berman, we're going to nominate you to do a TED Talk. And you, I guess the students put it in your name.

00;44;36;22 - 00;44;56;25

Nick

And then I get this email from the Ted X UGA folks who said, Hey, some folks nominated you to do a TED talk. And I thought, I don't really know what that is. I mean, okay, it's some kind of a talk or something. So they sent me some questions and I respond to the questions online. And then they said, okay, well can we interview you?

00;44;56;25 - 00;45;14;13

Nick

So I did this interview and then after that they said, Well, yeah, we'd really like you to do one of these. Ted talks. And so I met with this team of students who they assigned to you to help me flesh out these ideas. And the students said, Well, what are you thinking? That you would want to do this talk?

00;45;14;14 - 00;45;38;23

Nick

Oh, I mean, it should be something that stretches across audiences, across ages. Just I said, Well, everybody that knows me knows I love teaching and my students know that. And my students said, We nominated you because we just want you to talk about teaching. The way you teach is different than other people. And so I said, Well, look, can I do a talk about teaching and how and I've said this for a long time.

00;45;39;00 - 00;46;02;20

Nick

I think everybody is a teacher. You may not be an educator like I'm an educator, but everybody's a teacher in some form. And I said, let's do a talk about everybody being a teacher and what it takes to be a great teacher. You know, here's the one thing all great teachers do the literature, the research on great teaching has said for decades.

00;46;02;25 - 00;46;25;21

Nick

The number one thing is that teachers care about their learners above content knowledge, above everything that they genuinely. So I thought all of my students know that in all my classes I always have crazy acronyms that spell out different things. And I thought, Well, I got to have support points that spell out the word care because that's what great teachers do.

00;46;25;29 - 00;46;47;16

Nick

So I literally is true story. I was lying in bed on the notes page on my phone and I just typed out, Okay, here are these four things that spell out care that I, you know, celebrate mistakes, appreciate differences, relay feedback, evaluate themselves. I said that that's what I want to share. And we came together as students and I said, okay.

00;46;48;13 - 00;47;13;13

Nick

And I said, Well, some people script these things, you know, they memorize that word for us. And now I don't I don't want to do that. I just I know what I want to say and I want to go out there and I just want to do it. So we did a couple practice runs and stuff, but, you know, I just I love doing that and I wish I could do it every day because it is it is so exhilarating.

00;47;13;13 - 00;47;31;08

Nick

It is so fun for me. And to be honest with you, it's something that it just comes naturally. So I was so humbled to get a chance to do it. I tell you, at the time, I didn't realize how I guess you could say big of a deal. It was. I did. And I just did it. I use the animals in it and all that.

00;47;31;08 - 00;47;39;12

Nick

And that was it. But it it sure has brought me a lot of joy knowing that people have watched it and benefited from it. You know, it means the world.

00;47;39;12 - 00;47;41;03

Brexton

How cool. Yeah, that's awesome.

00;47;41;14 - 00;47;42;08

Nick

Yeah, it was fun.

00;47;42;23 - 00;47;44;20

Brexton

What a cool story, man. Thanks so much.

00;47;44;27 - 00;47;45;19

Nick

My pleasure.

00;47;45;19 - 00;47;45;29

Brexton

And such.

00;47;45;29 - 00;48;02;28

Nick

A pleasure. Thank thanks so much for asking me and invite me to be on your show, man. I hope everybody's enjoyed it and made you smile out there. It's all we could do. You do a good job and smile and laugh. Or at the very least, man, you guys excited the usher and you do that? Well.

00;48;03;06 - 00;48;06;23

Brexton

You do that very well. Well, thanks, Nick. It's been a real pleasure. You have a good.

00;48;06;23 - 00;48;09;20

Nick

Have a meeting. Thanks. Practice to take care. Bye.

00;48;09;28 - 00;48;27;28

Brexton

So, yeah. What's up, guys? Thanks so much for listening. If you liked the episode and you want to spread the message, there's three things that you can do that are a huge help. The first one, and by far the most impactful is share this with a friend. If there's somebody that has come to mind that you think needs to hear this message, find a way to get it to him.

00;48;27;28 - 00;48;46;17

Brexton

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00;48;47;05 - 00;49;02;23

Brexton

The third thing that you can do is you can go on to the show notes where there is a link to a survey listed on that survey. You can leave a comment or questions for us. You can also leave an idea for questions you'd like us to ask our next guest or ideas for who you'd like us to bring on the show as a new guest.

00;49;03;09 - 00;49;25;21

Brexton

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00;49;26;02 - 00;49;43;11

Brexton

Emma, our incredible sound engineer, and Kiernan, our amazing graphic designer. You guys are amazing. Couldn't do without you. So I cannot wait until next time and we'll see you then.